Interview:  NHRC paid over N480 million to 120 people for rights infringements after the SARS investigative panel saga, – Hilary Ogbonna.

In this interview, Hilary Ogbonna, a senior human rights adviser to the executive secretary of the National Human Rights Commission, speaks after a recent stakeholders consultative forum on the tripartite partnership to support national human rights institutions, Bodunrin Kayode sent an excerpt:

Q: Who are the three parties in the tripartite agreement you mentioned earlier during the stakeholder forum, and how long will it last?

A: It’s a partnership to support human rights institutions. It is also a partnership started by the United Nations Development Program (UNDP), the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, and the Global Alliance for National Human Rights Institutions. And this is supported by the Norwegians, who are big supporters of the partnership. The three of them came together with their respective mandates. Undp is the front-runner organization for the UN in terms of development, cooperation, rule of law, and governance. The office of the high commissioner for human rights is the gatekeeper for global human rights, and the global alliance for national human rights institutions is the coalition and secretariat of all national human rights commissions across the world, over a hundred of them. So the three of them came together to decide to support the national human rights institutions to be able to achieve their mandates of promoting and protecting human rights and ensuring that they work with stakeholders in civil societies across the world. They pick and choose which national human rights commission they will support at any given time, and this is Nigeria. So they decided to support us from January 2024 to December 2024. By January 2025, they will decide whether to continue and how. So what are they supporting? The main support they provide is the capacity of national human rights institutions to enable them to achieve their mandates for human rights monitoring and reporting, sourcing data for human rights, and supporting national organizations to establish frameworks for business and human rights. Training and capacity building for human rights commissions and for their subnational-level offices. Since we have an office in Borno, the reason we are here is to use this week to build the capacity of our staff so that they are able to support the people of this state. So under the TPP, we are also doing a lot around promoting women’s rights, gender equality, and human rights education. So for all of this, we are going to support the Borno State Office of the NHRC, and it will be done throughout the year. The overall goal is to ensure that human rights commissions are effective in implementing their mandates, which is why we came here. 

Q: Speak on the final document you intend to propound as a roadmap for a business and human rights framework to hand over to the Federal Government, the planned pillars inside, etc. How would you put it? 

I can tell you that we have already set up that standard. We have all the necessary documents. The only person without the document as I speak to you is the Borno State Government. At the federal level, we have these two documents, one of which is the national action plan on the protection of human rights. That is a human rights obligation of Nigeria under the Vienna Declaration. President Buhari approved this in April 2023. So instead of presenting another action plan on business and human rights to them, we included it as a chapter under this national action plan. So in passing this, they have passed the two of them. The implementation of this one is ongoing by all the ministries. It’s a national document for everyone, not just the Human Rights Commission. As the ministry of environment or information, there is a role for you to play here. But this one is a specific national human rights mechanism for business and human rights. It is under this one that we have established the national working group on business and human rights. This is the one we want to establish in Borno State. So for us, we have outlined this road map, and under it, we will first develop a consent note that we will hand over to the government on what they need to know and do. And when the government understudies that note, we will also include these processes. They will do stakeholder mapping to know who is who and who is doing what. After that, they will convene a state consultative forum on business and human rights, which will mandate the state government to go ahead and develop a state action plan on business and human rights. This action plan will take into consideration everything that is contextual to this state as it concerns the human rights of the people of the state. They will copy a lot from the national action plan, but they will also make their own specific Borno plans. And then the action plan will say who will belong to the state working group, and they will inaugurate the state working group. Then they will begin the process of implementation, where they will stipulate what they will do, such as the capacity building that must be done to ensure that businesses conform to the national human rights principles and standards. Across Nigeria, with the social challenges we are having, any company that decides to have social responsibility will go and bring bags of rice, ask people to queue up, and there will be a stampede. People will even die due to the struggles for palliatives, which are human rights violations. So we need to have a standard for what to do, and we are already developing one, especially when it comes to business compliance on the issues of social care. You don’t kill people while trying to help them.

Q: Cuts in… like what happened during the customs palliative saga? 

It’s not only Nigerian customs that make such mistakes; even churches do it. Churches say they are coming to help with food. You will not ask how many people will come; you did not issue tickets; nor did you ask for a central exit or entrance so that when the place is full, you will close the door. And then, you don’t have emergency medical response units in case anything happens. It’s a general Nigerian thing, even where we are now. If someone collapses in this hotel now, God forbid, I am sure they do not have a system to evacuate them. And if they are evacuating you, do they have ambulances or amenities to use? So it’s just a whole gamut of unsolved problems.

Q: Finally, if there is a violation of the UN guiding principles on human rights between now and December 2024, what is the guarantee that everything will be ready? 

A:…..cuts in. Everything depends on the state government. If they ask us to jump, we will ask how high you want to jump. So it’s up to them, but if they don’t have this state action plan, our own action plan will cover them. Because human rights are a federal thing, they cannot do state action plans for the protection of human rights because the Vienna Declaration is very clear about it. But they can do a state action plan on business and human rights because even the state government taxes and also regulates businesses.

Q: Alternative justices—speak on it—and judicial remedies—will they be embedded in this package of the action plan?

A: Alternative justices will be embedded in the state-based package on non-judicial remedies. There are state-based judicial mechanisms and non-judicial mechanisms. The state-based non-judicial mechanisms include the Human Rights Commission. The ulamas are non-state-based judicial mechanisms, and they can equally perform some functions with limited quasi-judicial roles. The good thing is that each of them can actually perform judiciary roles and award compensation. Like the HRC will award compensation based on its laws, if it’s the DSS or police that infringed on your rights, we will ask them to insert the same in their budget, and it will be paid to you. And I tell you, we have been successful in all this. But whether we speak about it enough or not, I can tell you we don’t. But like the special anti-robbery squad (SAS) panel, I can tell you that we paid over N480 million to 120 people for all the infringements that were incurred by their personnel in that incident. 

Interview:  NHRC paid over N480 million to 120 people for rights infringements after the SARS investigative panel saga, – Hilary Ogbonna.

Kashim Shettima is focused, trying to bridge gaps across people, culture, and religion in Nigeria. – Dr. Bwala

Dr. James Bwala, PhD, is a media practitioner, consultant, and author. He is one of the closest media men to Nigeria’s Vice President, Senator Kashim Shettima. Ahead of the May 29 celebration of democracy day in Nigeria, he spoke to newsmen about his long-time relationship with the VP and why he writes in his own style to promote and defend Nigeria’s Vice President on many fronts and other sundry issues. NEWSng was there and sent an excerpt:

Q: Thank you for having us. It was indeed very important that we meet you. Can you please tell us about yourself?

A: I guess I am not in a hot seat. I really did not expect this question. It reminded me of some interview questions I was asked while I was seeking job opportunities with the NGO some time ago. But since this is not a job interview, I figured that I would relax and try not to be nervous. My name is James Bwala, as you all know. I am a journalist and have practiced in the media space for over two decades now. I studied mass communication for my first and second degree programs and earned my PhD in management with a specialty in disaster management. Currently, I run a media organization as the managing editor as well as managing public relations on behalf of the University of Maiduguri Teaching Hospital (UMTH). I am also into politics, trying to follow in the footsteps of my principal, Nigeria’s Vice President, Senator Kashim Shettima, who has graciously been a very good teacher and mentor. And I hope that my learning will bring positive fruits and add value to Nigeria’s politics at any given opportunity to make a mark and to sell the Nigerian dream in the renewed hope initiative of Mr. President.

Q: You are a prolific writer, and we are happy to say that you are doing well and encouraging young media professionals with your style. We have read a lot of writings from you defending and promoting the Vice President before, during, and even after the general elections. Do you have any political appointments in this government?

A: I just told you that the VP is my principal, whether or not I have an appointment in the government or not. My loyalty to the VP has been there for decades. He calls me brother, and I think he is an older brother I have who also stood with me in my darkest moments. He has demonstrated the brotherly love that I have heard preachers preach, and he never leaves me as would some older brothers do. I am happy that you noted that I have written several pieces on him. Some were promotional, while others were trying to defend both his public and private lives. Yes. I have been given a political appointment in this government, but that is not about me and Kashim Shettima. It was the reward system in a political circle when you played your part in the game and when your loyalty was tested and you gave results. For that also, I will remain grateful to the VP for choosing to consider me for such a political position. And like I said, he never leaves me. I will look up to him as that older brother and respect him. I will also always defend him in the media, where necessary.

Q: How long have you known the VP? 

A: About three decades, actually. I was raised in Kaduna, but I grew up in Borno State, which is my state. I am a bona fide citizen of Borno State, and I am proud of that. While growing up in Bullumkuttu, Abuja, in the city of Maiduguri, I happened to leave around the VP’s wife’s family residents. I became friends with some of Her Excellency’s brothers and sisters, and we attended the same Bullumkuttu Primary School in the 1980s. I knew Kashim Shettima around 1988, to be precise, but we became very close when he became commissioner under the Modu Sheriff administration and I was writing for the newspapers as a journalist. I think we became very close because we share the same attitude and vision. Our culture, books, and views of life are the same. So, I would say we think alike.

Q: How would you describe the VP’s activities in the last year of this administration, and do you see distractions?

A: Well, they are too numerous to mention his activities generally. For distractions, there are also numbers. However, the VP is focused. Remember he said in one of his many sayings during the campaign that you should stop throwing stones at every dog that barks at you or you may not reach your destination on time? So, I want to tell you that this is his posture toward distraction. And you can see that he remained focused, building on the renewed hope initiative of the government by trying to bridge gaps across people, culture, and religion. He has also been in and out of the country, connecting and networking to build relationships for security, the economy, and others. For every achievement, there is a working person, and the VP is one of those working to achieve the dreams of Mr. President and give Nigeria hope.

Q: Your writings speak volumes about the VP; do you also consult with him before you write?

A: No. I know him too well to read his lips, and I can also study his moods, especially his reactions to what I wrote. Like I said, he is my teacher and mentor, so I guess there is this chemistry of understanding what to do and what not to do between us, which came naturally. Secondly, I am a professional in my field with good experience in political writing. It is therefore easy for me to look at situations and determine with precision what I need to do as a professional. For someone like the VP, all I need to know are the vital signs, which are obligations to me because of the closeness. I watched his back media wise, and he does mine brotherly.

Q: Recently, you wrote defending the VP on the issue of 2027. Why do you think some people want him replaced? Did he offend those calling for his replacement?

A: You know, this is actually laughable. 

VP Kashim Shettima did not offend anybody, but the gang was politically motivated. For me, it is normal in politics to have those who want you there and those who are pushing for you to be out of place. But let me tell you something. Recently, the President appointed the Zenith Bank Chairman to lead the loan team. Jim Ovia was VP Shettima’s boss when he was still working in the bank. What does that tell you? Does it look like there is friction between the VP and his principal? The closeness between VP Kashim Shettima and the Zenith Bank Chairman is well known to Mr. President. As those people claim in their dreams that there is friction, I do not think we have been seeing this development coming. Mr. President is well educated and knows very well those he can work with. He has a history of gathering intellectuals around him. That is also the reason for choosing VP Kashim Shettima as his running mate and partner in the governance of Nigeria. Together, they have been doing tremendously well, and as I said in my writing, there will be no replacement as suggested by those doomsayers.

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Q: You sounded very confident about the political future and the likely play for Tinubu and Kashim Shettima in 2027. What is giving you such confidence, as in some of your writings?

A: I don’t know, actually. But I keep having my dreams, and I believe in them. It has happened in the past and has come to be true. It is happening again, and I keep my belief. So many people fighting over 2027 think they are gods. This administration has only been around for about a year now. If they think they have all it takes to govern better than what the current occupants of the seat of power are doing, I hope that as Nigerians they should be kind to render support through their vision to help Nigeria develop well. The president and his vice president are calling on those who have vision for the development of Nigeria to come forward with suggestions. They must not be in position before they can bring out their good road map to make Nigeria better. If they are waiting to come to a position before they give suggestions or bring their ideas to the table, then I would suggest that those are not thinking of making Nigeria great but are working towards their selfish desires to occupy seats for the betterment of their families and not Nigeria.

Q: Can you at least mention those you think are already fighting over 2027? And those calling for the replacement of the VP?

A: My friends, we know the writing on the walls. You go and read some of the writing floating in the newspaper spaces. We have over one hundred live newspapers in the country, and they have been reporting issues recently. Engaged in some of these newspapers, you can come up with names likely to be those you are looking for. I do not know any of them other than those I have read through on the pages of the newspapers, and I believe you can do the same.

Q:. On May 29, this administration will be celebrating one year. Do you think there are things to celebrate?

A: Well, if I may ask you, do you think there are no things to celebrate? You see, sometimes we ask questions for which we already know the answers. Of course, there are thousands of things to celebrate about Nigeria. I hope you have been following the various achievements made by our military, the police, and other security agencies in the areas of insecurity in the country. I hope you have written about the successes in the economic sector. There are several achievements in health, agriculture, the road, and what have you. I may not have time to mention others, but we have days counting to May 29, and you can do us the favor of going around to hunt on the successes and achievements of the Tinubu and Kashim Shettima administrations since their coming to power on May 29, 2023. Nigerians are eager to hear from you because they can count on you, and I urge you to be fair in your reports.

Q: On a final note, what do you think this government should do based on the assessments of people on what they did or did not do for Nigerians and how to improve on their promises?

A: First of all, let me make it clear that you are asking the wrong question here because I am not a member of the economic team of this administration. Secondly, what I hear people saying may be different from what you hear that people are saying, so do not expect me to give an answer to what is going on about what you hear. However, I can speak for what I hear, and that is a positive note on the many challenges that this administration was able to sum up. Two key issues have been on the board since this administration came on board on May 29, 2023. That is the issue of insecurity and Nigeria’s economy. I think that you would agree with me that the Tinubu-Shettima partnership has done creditably well in tackling these menaces in the areas of security and economy. If you do agree with me, then I can tell you that the government by measurements has done well and should be given the passing mark for demonstrating rear leadership.

Kashim Shettima is focused, trying to bridge gaps across people, culture, and religion in Nigeria. – Dr. Bwala

In spite of the insurgency in our backyard coupled with dangerous chemicals we work with, my people are uninsured  – Chairman NAAT unimaid chapter

Comrade Yusuf Bulus is the Chairman of the National Association of Academic Technologists NAAT. Pinning him down for a chat was a long struggle which ended up in his laboratory at the department of Pharmacy, University of Maiduguri. Before the interview, there was a tour of one of the small spaced  laboratory of the faculty of pharmacy. So many lapses were pointed at. It was obvious management backed by the federal government who are the owners of the institution must hurry up to give the faculty more lab spaces if they want their graduates to be of contemporary standards. Bodunrin Kayode sends extract of the interview with the Comrade chairman Yusuf. 

Q: How has it been over the years working without the required upgrades in the faculty of pharmacy? 

A: The students are coping, but we need to be supervising them. So that’s the major aspect of it. That’s why I would have loved you to see the laboratory while in session so you understand the challenges. The other side is the store and preparation room where we keep some equipments and reagents. When the students need to carryout their practicals, we ask the junior staffs to bring them so that we perform their experiments. We keep monitoring and observing other things because there are some of the reagents that you may likely not put inside that place. You need to keep it inside your office, so that your eyes will always be there.

Q: How far has the Federal Government kept its word concerning equipment upgrades because I know President Goodluck approved funds for these things before he left office after the first agreement. 

A: Yes, it was N 30 billion.

Q: What is the situation now in terms of the fight for upgrades between ASUU, NAAT and the Federal Government?

A: Actually, as you stated, this strike is as a result of the 2009 agreement. When the 2009 agreement was signed there were components of it not fulfilled. Now let me be specific to that of NAAT and then talk about that of ASUU. The 4 affiliated unions in the University which are ASUU,  SSANU, NASU and NAAT, had their own separate agreements. ASUU did their own, SSANU did their own, NASU did their own, NAAT did their own and the four unions were fighting the Federal Government and that led them into unfulfilled promises. The components of the agreement was different as each union had its own separately. Federal Government in its own logic gave us 30 billion naira, in 2007 and  that was released during Goodluck’s period, you know it was supposed to be Goodluck and Yar’adua. But actually, it was Goodluck that was on seat, they now released that money. So that money was shared  based on seniority.

Q: Is NAAT entitled to EARNED allowances, like ASUU?

A: No, you see in our components, we have responsibility allowances, we have occupational hazard allowances, SWIS allowance, we have field trip allowances. That occupational hazard allowance is to be paid N30,000 monthly for each technologist, that’s for NAAT members, which we have started benefiting as from last year when we joined the IPPIS. Now, responsibility allowances, for heads of the labs, like me who is heading this lab and the excess of that money is for somebody who is taking care of that inventory of what is coming in and what is going out. So we are able to hold one and Federal Government has considered and have started implementing the payment of N25,000 every month.  So when they paid that money, they just shared it like that. When it comes to this hazard allowances, junior staff is collecting N15,000, senior staff N30,000 that’s what I am specifically talking about NAAT. But when it comes to the issue of this 2009 agreement, that’s what I am trying to tell you that u77each union has it own agreement, now ASUU has its own agreement, NASU has its own, NAAT, SSANU all of us have our own. But when the money came in, the lion share was carried by ASUU, so the other ones were shared to SSANU, NASU, NAAT based on seniority. But from that one too, NAAT got the second lion share, because as of then, our chiefs who are the most senior by ranking got about N900,000, while the junior ones got the least of N300,000 that is how the money was shared. But in the subsequent one, when we fought, they gave us our rights. The Federal Government now sent an audit committee to come and audit what was collected from them and that is how we shared what is our outstanding. So from then on Federal Government gave us another money for good 3 terms. Until this recent strike which started around February last year our encounter with them has not been easy. Lets be specific ASUU was fighting for revitalization in the 2009 agreement, that’s the revitalization we are talking about and you can see the stands of the University and the equipments in this lab.

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Q: But how much did  NAAT get from that N30 billion? 

A: The N30 billion was for the whole country, for the 4 unions. They didn’t share it in Abuja. It was shared in each institution. 18 percent of the money was given to  the three unions. And that was to take care of Earned and other related allowances.

Q: So how many years of EARNED allowances is minister Adamu Adamu owing the Federal Universities? 

A: Let me be specific with that of NAAT, when we calculated and gave our outstanding, what was given to us was not up to 30 percent of what we expected from Federal Government. Lets say you are expecting N200 billion they now gave you N30 billion and that is for EARNED allowances. As for revitalization, Federal Government has been sending money for revitalization. And we and the other non teaching staffs have been benefitting. We were even expecting before joining the strike. And the money that is coming for revitalization is to buy equipments, reagents and consumables. But where we have problem is that the end users were not incorporated in using that money. The money will come to the University which is supposed to be taken care of by the governing council and then buy those things, but because of the situation we find ourselves, we cannot access it. So the issue of the state of the Universities is that the Federal Government may give that money, but it is not used judiciously. 

Q: Are you saying that some people will deep hands into the funds and divert?

A: Sure, and divert it, instead of making proper appropriation for it to go round where the needs exists. 

Q: I see tarred roads on campus, could it not be that management here is benefiting from the upgrade support to fix the school already? 

A: No, if you are talking about those newly tarred roads you are seeing, it’s not only Zulum’s support, I know of Nigeria National Petroleum Corporations NNPC’s, Federal Ministry of Works and other interventions. The needs assessments normally takes care of equipments, roofing, hostels, the structure in classrooms, laboratories, workshops, studios teaching facilities, this is where revitalization is coming into. 

Q: So can we say Federal Government has not paid any of the aggrieved allowances for 2021, 2020, 2019 and 2018?

A: Yes, in fact from 2017 to date.

Q: So even ASUU has not seen 2017?

A: Yes, what has been given was the backlog. The last money that dropped for say from 2013 to 2016, so 2017 to date nothing has been received.

Q: At least for a lab small as this?

A: Not for this side lab, but for the standard of the Nigerian Universities Commission (NUC) or Pharmacy Council of Nigeria (PCN) considering Its students per ratio or students per staff. We are supposed to have 20 students per one staff. If you look at what is happening here in this lab, where I am the only technologist it’s not so. So if there was provision, and had it been five of us are here which means 5 multiplied  by 20 its supposed to be 100. And in a situation whereby I am the only person, which means the remaining  80 are excess workload, so that is why government is supposed to pay me my allowances. If you are talking about space. Here they calculate 20 students per one staff, if in a course, one course four lecturers are taken care of that course which means we are going to share it when the money comes. So they will calculate 20 times 4 which is 80, the remaining 20 is excess workload. Then if you are talking about revitalization where it affects the students especially in the lab here, the capacity of this building is supposed to be 48. They admit 130 students, so if they admitted 130 something, its triple. So we normally use to divide the students into groups. Group A, B, C.  Group A will come today 3 hours next group B will come next C will come that’s how we share. That’s why they complain about academic staff and even we the technologist that is if the space is available the equipments and material should be available. If you look at the size of this one and look at the equipments now, are they okay? How many Microscopes is available in this lab? Where we have 120 students and the capacity of the lab is 48, we are supposed to have 48 to 50 microscopes. That is one for the lecturer, one for the technologist, and each student should have one. Which means the students will not go and join another group for them to carry out their practicals. Two, if you look at lightening system, look at Air conditioners (AC’s) here, if you allow 40 students to be here you know how much you are going to contain. The ACs are not working. This lab is not even supposed to contain fan, but look at it in the absence of ACs you now put fan and you see its another problem which means its circulating. This means the place is not safe for learning.

Q: What is delaying the second pharmacy structure that will give you more lab spaces? 

A: Actually, I should not be in the best position to tell you, but out of experience I am a union leader because I normally used to ask questions. Its the system that is destroying itself, now if a building is given as a contract whereby some percentage will be given to you. You will be paid based on the stage you reach, but for the past three years now they gave that building and the time for that building is supposed to be 14 month, today its almost 72 months that they gave it out and it has not been built. That is why I said I am not in the best position to tell you what is going on. But I learnt that TET fund has given a direct contract from Abuja for the completion of the second pharmacy structure. The contractor would just come in and start working, and sadly that means we the end users that are supposed to correct them can’t talk to them. What you request is not what would be provided in most cases. That is the disadvantage.

Q: Big minus indeed for you the users of the facilities which are overloaded here. 

A: Yes and a lot of duplication from the contractors they make money out of duplication of items instead of them bringing this pen, somebody went and brought another variety of pen or even pencil. He said, I said that is the one that I want, why are you bringing pencil? Please the function of the pens and pencils are different just go and get what we asked for. So in the process of changing, they will say its like you are not cooperating with us, no problem we will go back and then they will dump and forget you. That is exactly what is happening with even the supply of equipments here. It’s sad. 

Q: What are those challenges that have been choking you here? 

A: Most of the challenges is electricity light especially for the labs. Electricity is one, two, water system. Three spacing, you know a situation whereby this lab is built for 48 students, because of the competition and the situation we find ourselves, they admitted 150 students. Then the big challenge is lack of consistent training of our technologists. Regular training, because the equipments that you got training in 1980, 1990, is not the one we are using now. Insurance is the fourth. lack of insurance is a major problem. I know NAAT has its, insurance policy but its not implemented. If you are working in the lab, there are some reagents here if you are working that can kill you and even destroy your reproductive cells. You see somebody with a fine wife, but he cannot give birth, the reagents has sterilized the reproductive cells. If he has an insurance, it will take care of that. But you know we have a policy, but the policy is not being implemented. Why the union was agitating for that renegotiation, this renegotiation the last time they increased the money was that 2009 agreement. From now if you look at the rate of, lets talk of dollars now or let’s talk of even the naira say as of 2009, a bag of rice was N2000. Today a bag of rice is N35,000. At 2009 you don’t pay any money for your student needs even government school, but today you must pay. Things have changed completely, so people are now moving helter skelter looking for other places where they can get extra jobs so that they can survive. And if you are going to talk specifically of unimaid, we have a peculiar problem, thank God you have that experience. You were here when the crisis was at its peak, everybody ran and left  Maiduguri, because life doesn’t have duplicate, so somebody will run and find another place. So these are the reasons why our welfare is supposed to be taken care of. 

Q: But has insurance been part of the findings of the Babalakin commission? 

A: Yes. As I have said we have it in our own 2009 agreement, but even some parts of the 2009 agreement was silent. People were just agitating about where the money will come from. That is why, if you go out now asking Technologists, they would tell you that  our hazard, responsibility, student implementation ratio which is excess workload, our SIWES and all these allowances are known. But people are silent about insurance. We have been talking about insurance, but you know I don’t know how to classify it, is it because of the individual unions, the leadership interest. But I know that in our 2009 agreement it is there. People are silent all over about the matter. And they are talking about this IPPIS let us be sincere to ourselves, I am a union leader, these are what I am interested in, I don’t bother about how you pay but what I am going to get there is where I am interested in.

Q: How are you surviving with the IPPIS? 

A: The reality is, that sometimes ago when we were about joining this IPPIS as leaders, we were briefed that this thing is going to be captured that one is going to capture, but it was not realistic when we joined IPPIS.  I thought that this is something that the union leaders should fight and why is it that there are abnormalities. This was not what we agreed for, correct it or else. But if somebody is talking about IPPIS now I am surprise because why is it that some lecturers are going for sabbatical, if they are not paying you why should you go? I know of my people that went for  sabbatical, if they are not paid there, why should they go.

Q: NAAT too  go for sabbatical?

A: Yes, we go sabbatical, I know about 15 of my members went for sabbatical why are they going if they are not getting anything? why should you go and spend a complete year somewhere else if you are not getting money? There are people that have never gone for sabbatical. Is an agreement that you arrange with somebody. Like one visiting they don’t pay you full salary but they would say we are paying so for so either they would pay from internally generated revenue IGR or whatsoever the management is going to consider. We have enough money to pay these people because we don’t have them as contract staff. I know some of the contract staff that got their money from IPPIS.

Q: I don’t think they paid anything to contract staff, they are owing during the strike. 

A: Good, but other staffs yes during the strike let me tell you the worst strike that ever happen in this country is this strike. Even overhead, Federal Government refused to send it, how do they expect these people to run the schools? Are Vice Chancellors on strike, Registrar’s, Bursar’s essential services?

Q: That was a mistake, the government shouldn’t have done that? You are right

A: Its like they wanted to destroy, or eliminate the whole thing. Yes if not for the whole 7 month or 8 month you have not sent over head cost and you still expect to come and see that structure, in the system. So this strike is something very strange it was not a strike but another battle. Because its like people came with some of their interests to come and revenge or to come and destabilize things, if not, let me be specific like this primary school and secondary school they were called that if you are on strike and that you don’t want you will not come, how are you going to do with your children, they came and they were not given single kobo. Security men there were on duty, fire service they were on duty, nothing was given to them. And if you come back to the lab now look at the animals. If you go on strike for one month without feeding those animals, what will happen are you coming to meet the animals alive? 

Q: Now looking at salary raise of 35 percent that was given to Profs, did they give NAAT members of equivalent status this?

A: We got 23.5 percent. For NAAT, NASU and SSANU 23.5 percent. We suspended the strike for 3 month hoping that things will be okay. But if things are not okay we may go back for another NAAT meeting and review the stand of the association. As NAAT we always believe in dialogue and law, so that because of our number and the challenges that I said. If you go and meet a Professor of History, or of religious knowledge where he doesn’t know, he doesn’t bother about laboratory or talking about technology taking care of it. For you to graduate you must pass through technologists. Well ASUU is collecting students implementation ratio, we collect our student supplementation ratio. I am very proud to tell you that in this school we have enjoyed student supplementation ratio for almost 3 years collecting our salaries. Because that was our right and they know and they look at it that yes it is good to pay us. We stay and conduct practicals up to 5 o’clock or 6 pm. Sometimes we have to leave our houses 7 o’clock for practical in the mornings.

Q: The negotiation of the 2009 agreement continues as far as NAAT is concerned. Do you believe that it is solvable?

A:Yes, they have not accepted it, because the renegotiation is not talking about holding salaries but was talking about allowances and then services, scheme of services. The other ones we are talking about are health insurances, some other allowance that people are benefiting in other climes but we are not benefiting. Then I said renegotiation of, arrears of earned allowances. 

In spite of the insurgency in our backyard coupled with dangerous chemicals we work with, my people are uninsured  – Chairman NAAT unimaid chapter