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Desperate Insurgents ready to buy bag of Rice for N60,000 and a litre of Petrol for N10,000 – General Musa

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Desperate Insurgents ready to buy bag of Rice for N60,000 and a litre of Petrol for N10,000 – General Musa

Desperate Insurgents ready to buy bag of Rice for N60,000 and a litre of Petrol for N10,000 – General Musa

General Christopher Musa fumes at residents still doing business with Boko Haram, says desperate insurgents are ready to buy a bag of rice at N60, 000 while petrol goes for N10, 000 per litre. In this Interview with Bodunrin Kayode, the Theatre Commander speaks on sundry issues. NEWSng reports

Q: General, so much delay has affected the prosecution of captured insurgents. And now the govt has to go after about 64 of them who escaped from Kuje custodial centre.

A: Yes and prosecution can take place only when the work of the joint investigation centre (JIC) is done with those who were captured and not surrendered. It’s a long process. When they capture them, they sort out who the insurgents are. And this is to stop them from blending with the noncombatant civilians because they are always trying to disguise themselves. So you have to know who and what part each person played. It takes a long process and time and the exhibit that would be tendered in court. This is because even when you know he is Boko Haram, and you don’t have enough evidence and exhibits, the judge may throw the case out. You must bring exhibits to show that he is a Boko Haram. That is why the Attorney General used to send his representative to be involved in the thorough investigation and screening. After this process in isolation, the ones who do not have any cases are released while those involved are prosecuted. We do this so that we have water tight cases that will not fail in court prosecution of captured insurgents?

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They will say it’s a legal issue. All I can tell you now is that about 64 insurgents were part of those who escaped from the kuje correctional centre. They are the same people awaiting trial all this while. Some of them were the key Boko Haram commanders arrested and kept in kuje for prosecution

Q: The figures of those defected are swelling. It’s close to 80,000 now and soon it will be 100,000. How do you intend to keep this large number of people in just three camps for so long?

A: Ours is to provide security to make sure that they do not breach any form of security. We are doing our part and the State government is trying its best to handle the management of the surrendered but it’s beyond them now. So it has to be a whole government affair. Both Federal state and council. It’s the Disarmament Demobilization and Reintegration (DDR) that would handle such programs. And this is one year of the program running. We started in July last year and it’s a year now. After sorting into combatants and noncombatants, the combatants are left with their family members and are very well catered for by the government. They have limited movements. They can’t go outside the camp. It’s the noncombatants that are allowed some movements. Mark you the sorting out is done by the community members who are brought in to identify them. I told you the people know themselves and can tell which part everyone played in the crisis. Noncombatants repentant are treated differently from the combatants based on roles played. The State Government has continued to feed them making life easier for them in the three camps. Those you referred to in Bama are brought down here for distribution as soon as the profiling is done.

Q: Cuts in……so the delay in the creation of the fourth camp is security related?

A: Obviously. We cannot create a camp where the lives of the people will be endangered. It must be a secured place where lives will be protected.

Q: General, Chibok ladies that most residents had given up on have started trickling into the state capital. Looks like getting the rest of their classmates may not be as oblivious as it looked before.

A: Obviously, that is our intention. And we hope to get all of them including Leah Sharibu. Her case is peculiar because they captured such a large number and released everyone but held on to her. That is why her case is Special to us and Nigerians must know this.

Q: Are Nigerians being updated about the progress report from sector 1 of the war theatre?

A: Well, we will continue to do our job. We are not stopping at any point especially on our clearance operations to free the space of insurgents. The challenges of the rains are here and you know what that means. We can’t move to so many places especially with heavy equipment. So you must move light. There is heavy vegetation everywhere so it obviously affords ambush sites for the insurgents to hide out to do one or two crazy things here and there. When vehicles get stuck in the marsh we spend hours pulling them out. And don’t forget the IEDs are still there. But we have remained focused and our operations have remained ongoing. Obviously with the rains falling, it equally hampers our air operations and that is a setback.  But the sector is doing fine.

Q: Do we still have operational no go areas you want residents of the state to take special note of General?

A: Wherever residents are, the Commander on ground  will tell them what to do so they will know how to live and move around safely without being hurt. We restrict people in certain areas because of unexploded ordinances that are buried in the ground. Those are the things we want to avoid.

Q: Sector 2 has been a bit quiet. Any update on that side?

A: They have been trying their best too. They never had challenges with those defectors. But now Damboa has a lot of people who have surrendered. And when we ask them what the issues are, they tell you they were suffering, hungry and tired of the war. So they too have started coming out which is good. We want to pull out as many as possible so if it’s only the commanders remaining we will see how they will fight further. Sector 2 has had their fair share of similar challenges like those of the rainy season which we suffer from here too. A recent flooding in that axis has destroyed the Azir Bridge which is almost 30 meters long. But our engineers and the state government are working hard to fix it so that commuter movements can be restored.

Also Read: Troops raid Boko Haram “Daula Market” kill six…

Q: Who wants to help you fix roads at the risk of being captured by Iswap? Don’t you think that is responsible for the foot dragging of the state government on your shouts to get roads in the theatre fixed?

A: I don’t think it is fear. It’s just the challenge associated with doing so many things at the same time. Doing roads here is a big challenge because you don’t get most of the equipment and even the raw materials like granite from here. These are the challenges they are having. So we expect the North East Development Commission (NEDC) and the Federal Ministry of Humanitarian affairs to come in and help us fix the roads. We have presented some of the challenges of the roads and they agreed they were going to be involved. At least it would take off some of the burdens from the state government.

Q: Six workers were abducted while trying to fix the Chibok Damboa road last year. Any word about their whereabouts from your troops?

A: Efforts are being made to track who and where they are. However, we have been able to recover some women captured from that axis. You know, sometimes, because of the communication challenges in the area, it takes time for us to get to know about these incidents except when we stumble on them and they are released through our operations.

Q” How many Chibok women have you rescued since you took over command here?

A: So far we have been able to get 5 of them. I also know that a relation of the Emir of Askira Uba was equally abducted. We got all of them back home. We don’t want to speculate on the status of how many of them are still alive in the bush but to wait until they come out completely.

Q: To sector 3, what was the casualty figure in the recent ambush in Gubio?

A: We had four casualties actually. Two soldiers and 2 civilian JTF. You see, these insurgents are just a bunch of idiots and criminals. What are they doing? Cattle rustling, stealing of food, people’s phones and cash. And when this happens sometimes the communities remain mute. They hardly want to talk due to the fear that had been instilled in them. 

Q: With the infighting among the terrorists, Boko Haram or Islamic state of west Africa ISWAP which of the factions that are tormentors of residents around sector 3?

A: Both are the same. They are both battered by war, fighting for survival. And for what to eat. They do the same things and they keep on fighting themselves. In the Gubio ambush, we actually captured one of the gun trucks of the insurgents because we had reinforcements that came to the location. They had to scream on seeing our reinforcement. I was in Gubio to see things for myself and we are still investigating the incident.

Q: On collaboration between sector 3 and the MultiNational Joint Task Forces MNJTF in the lake Chad region?

A: They just finished lake sanity and have pulled out. But our troops are continuing their work in the area with desert sanity. As I noted earlier, we are in the wet season and the challenges inside the tumbus islands are tremendous because it’s full of water. But we are still tugging on.  The insurgents have a way of sneaking in and out of the islands depending on the pressure we put on them.

Q: Status of fishing in Baga?

A: Life is back in Baga. Normal fishing is going on. And other economic activities have started picking up. Residents are equally farming in the place. 

Q: Is it right to say at least 10 percent of the fresh fish that comes out of Lake Chad is from the insurgents and their hired staff? 

A: Actually it’s difficult to make that kind of postulation. Because all the areas they are supposed to get fish and bring out are impossible. They can’t send fish to Maiduguri directly anymore. What they can do is to take their own catch to maybe Niger and round trip it into our markets. But surely not within the jurisdiction of my troops. You know we don’t have control over the international borders. They can’t bring fish directly into Maiduguri. That is impossible now.

Q: Nganzai was extremely battered by the insurgents when they took over. What is the status of Gudumbali now General?

A: There is nobody in that town for now. What is standing between us and  Nganze is manpower to dominate the area. That is the only thing remaining. This is because our troops are engaged in other critical areas too.  We only patrol the area for now. And  we can’t risk leaving the police alone there  because they would be a target for arms by the insurgents. But I assure you something will soon be done there.

Q: Some of the political leaders have been happy that the military has done well in capturing all the council area headquarters in Borno but worried that most of the surrounding villages are still no-go areas. How do you react to this?

A: The problem is really with some of them. They are not telling themselves the truth. Which infrastructure did you put in some of these places? There is nothing in the place. The Nganzai they are talking about has nothing. That is why we insist that all these kinetic efforts of ours is just 25 percent of the input expected to end this thing. 75 percent of the challenge is humanitarian and good governance. All what we are doing would just be cosmetic remedies without infrastructure. Because if these insurgents get back there they will just take over. No light, no water, hospital, schools etc, so what are we doing? It would be the same challenge. What would they eat? And I tell you it would be easier for the terrorists to convince the residents to return to where they came from. It’s good Governance that will help the people.

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From here to Mongunu is about 145 km. From Mongunu to Cross is over 30km. From Cross to.kukawa is 10 km. From Kukawa to Gudumbali is about 42 km. The distances are not much if the roads are good. Now if you want to get to Gudumbali you have to come through Magumeri to Damasak before going to Gudumbali instead of driving straight to Gudumbali because there is no good road infrastructure.And these are the challenges we are talking about.

Q: With this road lamentation, it means Kala Balge people are purely on their own this rainy season because they are surrounded by water and lots of marsh landscape and are usually cut off when the rains come down?

A: Not really, we have troops in kala balge. And there are people there. We meet their needs by air.

Q: Discipline and welfare?

A: We are doing our best on discipline. We understand the challenges as they come and we are doing our best to address them. We have endured that welfare is good as such, no soldier can complain about welfare. I talk to my soldiers directly and they give me information about all their challenges. There is no soldier that I cannot talk to directly. So I am aware that all their operational allowances are paid as at when due. So if there is anything like that, they will send me a text. I gave them one of my numbers. My Officers know that I mean well for them too and it’s just a way of back checking on all fronts. You know asymmetric warfare is not like conventional ; you have to constantly reinvent yourself to be ahead of them. That is why anywhere you are having that weak link and you don’t cover it up, it will surely affect you. Even the officers have that access, so that there would be no weak link so the enemy cannot capitalize on it.

Q: Your message to the entire war theatre

A: We want the people to continue believing in us and reporting whatever they see as wrong. We are grateful for their help except that people still do business with the insurgents and this should stop. It’s annoying. Those people are ready to buy a bag of rice for as much as 60,000 if they get their hands on it and we are saying don’t give them.  A litre of petrol can be bought for as much as N10,000 per litre. So you can see the attraction. They still rustle cattle and bring the same to our markets through third parties. We have seen women sneaking in with stuff in their body parts to sell to them. All these are the challenges we want residents to stop doing with them. All those business people thinking that they are making money. You are eating blood money because they are using it to kill other people.

Q: Reaction to the need for more foreign troops or mercenaries to prosecute the war?

A: Look these guys will come with their own terms and you have to fulfill them. And they will come and complicate your situation. And you may end up going to ground zero. They will prolong the thing and cause more trouble for you. And for the amount you wish to pay them, why not just give your troops in the form of equipment to defeat the enemy? 

Q: With the heavy demands of troops in the theatre now, will they be able to vote with the advent of the next general election?

A: Everyone is entitled to vote. It’s just that it’s not well sorted out. In some other climes, the military and security vote a day before everyone else. This is so that they will be able to concentrate on their duties the following day. If that is done for troops, it would be fine. Our problem here is that we are always on duty when there is an election. And you can’t wear uniforms to go and vote. That should be sorted out. I believe even the new system would eliminate so many fears of anomalies which cause inhibitions.

Q: In the name of advocating for a special day for the security to vote, can’t some of that be done online too? Or are we not ripe for online voting so some troops can vote from any location as long as there is a network?

A: …cuts in..Are we not using ATM’s all over the world? So what else are we waiting for? But again what we need to have is a comprehensive census to build a national database. With the database, you can capture every Nigerian all over the world. So it’s easier to do anything if you have a voter’s card. Just tell the computer, give me 18 and above and every year it will give you details of all those who turned 18 and above. You don’t need to run up and down at all because it’s easier. Finally we must get a good forest security management system, organized border control, enhanced judiciary, effective policing system, and fix the lapses in the correctional services so that what happened in Kuje will not be repeated. That is why the ministry of interior is also very critical in the enhancement of an encompassing security system.

Desperate Insurgents ready to buy bag of Rice for N60,000 and a litre of Petrol for N10,000 – General Musa

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The challenges with IEDs at the “Hadin Kai” theater will soon be history – Former TC General Ali

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The challenges with IEDs at the “Hadin Kai” theater will soon be history – Former TC General Ali

Before becoming the 10th Commander of the Multi-National Joint Task Force (MNJTF) in Chad, General Ibrahim Ali was the last theater commander (TC) of Operation Hadin Kai in North-East Nigeria. He succeeded in getting three Chibok girls and their children out of the Sambisa and vowed to get Lear Sharibu anywhere credible intelligence could locate her. He spoke with Bodunrin Kayode just before proceeding to his present command in N’djamena. Excerpt:

Q: General, before I proceed to matters of this war theater, I would like you to compare and contrast your last command with “Hadin Kai,” which you are about to leave after only 6 months.

The level of threat in the Jos. 3 Division area is quite different from the one in the North East Theatre Command. We know that the threats in the theater Command are more. This is because in the 3 division area, the threats are more like intercommunal clashes—you know, farmers and herders crises, kidnapping, cattle rustling, and things like that—but here in the Northeast, it is insurgency and terrorism. Which is higher in terms of mortality than those ones. So it was not easy, but I came with the experience I had from Jos, and before getting to Jos, I had been to the Northeast five times, and this will be my sixth time coming here. So I came with all those experiences I had earlier, and it really helped me. I had a fair knowledge of the modus operandi of the insurgents and the terrorists, and I was able to counter them. And this time around, we had better equipment to confront the insurgents than we used to have when I came earlier in the five times I mentioned. So, with the additional and improved equipment level and other platforms, we were able to degrade them to a very appreciable level.

Q: Is it true that the rule of engagement in the 3D theater was that soldiers were not allowed to take out anybody, even if the bandit was the aggressor messing around with ancestral lands and you were seeing him live?

A: No! No! That is not true. Because I remember the former President, commander in Chief, shortly after I went to Jos, especially the early period of my stay there. There was a directive from the Presidency in which the President said that “any person seen with an AK-47 rifle should be taken out. I remember that vividly, and it trickled down the Chain of Command and came to us. Which was equally sent to all my troops. Any person carrying an AK-47 rifle and attacking another community will be taken out. This is because he is an aggressor. And I can tell you, if you check the record, that there were a couple of militants that we took out, in Plateau and in Sabon Kaduna. I lost, during my stay as a junior officer in 3 divisions, about 3 to 4 soldiers, if I remember well. So, we cannot sit down and see them eliminating our troops, and we say that we are not supposed to fire because of the rule of engagement. It’s not true; any person carrying a weapon, at least an AK-47 rifle, is an aggressor, and he should be taken down. And that is what I was doing. The only peculiarity of the Jos area, of course, was when you talked about the inter-communal crisis. Communities or tribes fighting themselves, we had to come in between. And in that situation, as long as they are not carrying arms, we cannot start shooting them. Unless, of course, any of the other groups are carrying arms, then you definitely have the go-ahead to take them down.

Q: But is it true that mostly in the night beyond Mangu, Riyom, Ganawuri, etc.,troops were non-operational just pinned down, which is why the senator representing Plateau South, a retired general, was saying recently that he wants the defense chief to re-enact the rule of engagement to make them operational during the night too, to counter the bandits who operate mostly in the night or the wee hours of the morning?

No, we carried out patrols when I was the GOC. You know, I left there almost six months ago. When I was a GOC, we carried out patrols in the daytime and at night. We did carry out our night patrols. So, I am not aware of the fact that troops just stay confined to their locations. We carried out our patrol both day and night when I was there.

Q: Do we have night patrols or operations here in Operation Hadin Kai?

A: ….. Cuts in. Off course we do.

Q: Except that certain areas are shut down as early as 4 p.m., like the Maiduguri-Damaturu road, because of the aggression of the insurgents.

A: Yes, those are supply routes, main supply roads. We shut them down for security reasons, and that has been going on for a long time. You know. It’s for the security of the civil populace that plys the route that we can control the movement. And we make sure that people are not exposed to attacks.

Q: So, looking at the Northeast theater that you managed for about 6 months before shipping out, What, in your own perception, are achievements?

A: I will just mention a few; there are quite a lot of achievements, several achievements in the 6 months I have stayed. First of all, I, my staff, and my officers and men conducted Operation Desert Sanity 2 and Lake Sanity 2. We conducted Operation Mountain Sanity as well. So, these operations have to a large extent degraded the terrorist. 

Q: Cuts in. Mountain sanity is the Mandara stretch in Gwoza.

That is right, Mandara Mountains; we made a lot of recoveries. In Ukoba, Sambisa, we made a lot of recoveries. We were able to get very sound intelligence on where they have stashed their arms, ammunition, and weapons. The records are there, the photos are there, and I am very happy to say that I was able to rescue three out of the many Chibok girls that were abducted several years ago. I was able to rescue three of them from the operations we conducted. And there were two non-governmental organizations (NGO) staff that we rescued. Three others have not been seen, and we heard that they were killed by the terrorist. So, I am happy that we were able to rescue those two as well. I am talking about those that were picked up in Gamboru Ngala. Also, we were able to at least reduce the frequency of attacks on people. You can attest to the fact that the attacks that we used to experience in the past have been reduced by the terrorist attacks. We don’t have such attacks as we are used to any more. So, what they are trying to do now is attack farmers. Now that they have been degraded to an appreciable level, they are trying to get soft targets like the farmers. And we are taking adequate measures to counter that. You will know the terrorists once you are able to degrade them. They will look for other exit routes to cause damage. We are happy that we are able to degrade them, even though they will always change tactics. So now the tactics that were adopted were that they were trying to kill farmers to stop them from farming this year. And they intensified the use of Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs) and bombs along our routes of movement. So we are contending with that as well.

Q: So, what about Lear Shaibu? Did you get close to her?

Lear Sharibu; we are not sure where she is. We have been getting conflicting information about where exactly she is. But we have not lost hope yet; we think she is alive, and if we get good intelligence, we will definitely try to rescue her.

Q: So, what were some of the operational challenges that clogged the progress of troops in sectors 2 and 1?

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The challenges I experienced were, first of all, the issue of equipment. Another challenge is the high attrition rate of the equipment. So, it’s not that the equipment is not available. What I am saying is that the equipment is available, but before you know it, it is damaged. How? Because of the bombs encountered and the IEDs on the way, ok. A lot of Emeralds were bombed. Before you know it, when we go out for any major operation and come back with the troops, those vehicles will have gone over mines, which will damage most parts of the vehicle. We have the time to repair it, so we can deal with the subsequent operations. However, some of them are not going to be repairable at all. So, we need replacements, and this thing takes time. So, these are some of the challenges that we faced.

Q: IEDs have been a major challenge since your predecessor was here. Now you are facing them as a major challenge too. Is there any long-term plan to deal with these IEDs once and for all because the insurgents will still do them anyway?

A: Of course, that is the most preferred weapon for terrorists and insurgents. Especially now that they don’t have vehicles, they lack arms and ammunition. They have resorted to the widespread use of IEDs. We have just identified counter-IED equipment, which the Nigerian Army has purchased and will very soon deploy in the theater.

Q: Sector 3 is very peculiar. Lots of meshes: the Tunbus, the Timbuktu triangle. So how did you handle those challenges in Sector 3? Are they still IEDs, or are there other natural issues other than IEDs and flooding?

A: Of course, one of the major issues in Sector 3 is flooding. So now that we have had some experience in some areas, we have worked out ways to counter it the next time so that it doesn’t happen. By creating dykes, water floods areas to channel the water when it comes back. So, these are some of the things we have done. And we are clearing the waterways of the hyacinths and the giant grasses. So, this thing will also allow us to freely go through the channel linking the Lake Chad Basin area.

Q: And were you satisfied with the cooperation from your colleagues in the air?

A: Yes, absolutely yes.

Q: Cuts in. At times we see them bombing and producing their own reports outside the theater, or are those bombing under your command?

A: Yes, we plan everything with joint operations; you know, we plan together. You know, we mostly get the intelligence, and we pass it on to them to carry out the air rides. Yes,  they do conform to our directives here.

Q: What about the Navy guys in Baga and your amphibious troops? What’s next for them? What is their plan to end all of this?

A: The Navy, like I said, is involved in actively clearing the waterways that have been overtaken by the water hyacinths and going forward. They are going to be carrying out more serious amphibious operations in the Lake Chad Basin area.

Q: I believe that when you get over there in Chad, there will be a correlation between that side and this side, so that they will be able to weed out the criminals. This is because I learned that even on Tumbus Island, there are so many that nobody actually knows the number of them for effective planning. But I believe you people will take each day as it comes. Is that correct, General?

A: Yes, that is it.

Q: What then is your message to the people of this whole theater as you are leaving, especially concerning the defected insurgents surrendering daily? We have heard so many reports about them, you know, especially now that you are going to the other side of Lake Chad to do the same job in conjunction with foreign troops.

A: What I will tell them is that they should not look backwards. Of course, they shouldn’t lose hope either; they should continue to give support in times of information and intelligence. They should continue to talk to their brothers who are out fighting and tell them to lay down their arms and come out. I think the Governor has a good heart and wants the best for them. They should give him a chance and listen to him. They should come out of the bushes and lay down their arms. Now we have over 100,000 who have surrendered. Over 100,000. I think that is a sign that we are getting to the end of the tunnel. The crisis is coming to an end. Of course, there will be some die-hards. But of course, such die-hards will find themselves to blame at the end of the day. That is my message to them.

Q: My mind is on the wounded soldiers at the 7th Division hospital. Are you satisfied with the facility, having spent just six months managing the troops? In case you were here for another 6 months. What would you have done differently with the functional medical facility in the barracks?

A: Of course, it is to improve the hospital by buying more equipment. We can increase and buy more. Even though what we have is adequate and there is a system whereby we move some of them to 44 in Kaduna, you know, And even in Damaturu now, we have a few hospitals there. So, we have the capability to take care of the strength of the troops here.

Q: And we believe the new Chief will take care of the tertiary one being built here to ease the pressure on the UMTH and 44?

A: Of course.

Q: Thank you very much, General Ali. I wish you the best.

A: Thank you.

The challenges with IEDs at the “Hadin Kai” theater will soon be history – Former TC General Ali

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In spite of the insurgency in our backyard coupled with dangerous chemicals we work with, my people are uninsured  – Chairman NAAT unimaid chapter

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In spite of the insurgency in our backyard coupled with dangerous chemicals we work with, my people are uninsured  – Chairman NAAT unimaid chapter

Comrade Yusuf Bulus is the Chairman of the National Association of Academic Technologists NAAT. Pinning him down for a chat was a long struggle which ended up in his laboratory at the department of Pharmacy, University of Maiduguri. Before the interview, there was a tour of one of the small spaced  laboratory of the faculty of pharmacy. So many lapses were pointed at. It was obvious management backed by the federal government who are the owners of the institution must hurry up to give the faculty more lab spaces if they want their graduates to be of contemporary standards. Bodunrin Kayode sends extract of the interview with the Comrade chairman Yusuf. 

Q: How has it been over the years working without the required upgrades in the faculty of pharmacy? 

A: The students are coping, but we need to be supervising them. So that’s the major aspect of it. That’s why I would have loved you to see the laboratory while in session so you understand the challenges. The other side is the store and preparation room where we keep some equipments and reagents. When the students need to carryout their practicals, we ask the junior staffs to bring them so that we perform their experiments. We keep monitoring and observing other things because there are some of the reagents that you may likely not put inside that place. You need to keep it inside your office, so that your eyes will always be there.

Q: How far has the Federal Government kept its word concerning equipment upgrades because I know President Goodluck approved funds for these things before he left office after the first agreement. 

A: Yes, it was N 30 billion.

Q: What is the situation now in terms of the fight for upgrades between ASUU, NAAT and the Federal Government?

A: Actually, as you stated, this strike is as a result of the 2009 agreement. When the 2009 agreement was signed there were components of it not fulfilled. Now let me be specific to that of NAAT and then talk about that of ASUU. The 4 affiliated unions in the University which are ASUU,  SSANU, NASU and NAAT, had their own separate agreements. ASUU did their own, SSANU did their own, NASU did their own, NAAT did their own and the four unions were fighting the Federal Government and that led them into unfulfilled promises. The components of the agreement was different as each union had its own separately. Federal Government in its own logic gave us 30 billion naira, in 2007 and  that was released during Goodluck’s period, you know it was supposed to be Goodluck and Yar’adua. But actually, it was Goodluck that was on seat, they now released that money. So that money was shared  based on seniority.

Q: Is NAAT entitled to EARNED allowances, like ASUU?

A: No, you see in our components, we have responsibility allowances, we have occupational hazard allowances, SWIS allowance, we have field trip allowances. That occupational hazard allowance is to be paid N30,000 monthly for each technologist, that’s for NAAT members, which we have started benefiting as from last year when we joined the IPPIS. Now, responsibility allowances, for heads of the labs, like me who is heading this lab and the excess of that money is for somebody who is taking care of that inventory of what is coming in and what is going out. So we are able to hold one and Federal Government has considered and have started implementing the payment of N25,000 every month.  So when they paid that money, they just shared it like that. When it comes to this hazard allowances, junior staff is collecting N15,000, senior staff N30,000 that’s what I am specifically talking about NAAT. But when it comes to the issue of this 2009 agreement, that’s what I am trying to tell you that u77each union has it own agreement, now ASUU has its own agreement, NASU has its own, NAAT, SSANU all of us have our own. But when the money came in, the lion share was carried by ASUU, so the other ones were shared to SSANU, NASU, NAAT based on seniority. But from that one too, NAAT got the second lion share, because as of then, our chiefs who are the most senior by ranking got about N900,000, while the junior ones got the least of N300,000 that is how the money was shared. But in the subsequent one, when we fought, they gave us our rights. The Federal Government now sent an audit committee to come and audit what was collected from them and that is how we shared what is our outstanding. So from then on Federal Government gave us another money for good 3 terms. Until this recent strike which started around February last year our encounter with them has not been easy. Lets be specific ASUU was fighting for revitalization in the 2009 agreement, that’s the revitalization we are talking about and you can see the stands of the University and the equipments in this lab.

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Q: But how much did  NAAT get from that N30 billion? 

A: The N30 billion was for the whole country, for the 4 unions. They didn’t share it in Abuja. It was shared in each institution. 18 percent of the money was given to  the three unions. And that was to take care of Earned and other related allowances.

Q: So how many years of EARNED allowances is minister Adamu Adamu owing the Federal Universities? 

A: Let me be specific with that of NAAT, when we calculated and gave our outstanding, what was given to us was not up to 30 percent of what we expected from Federal Government. Lets say you are expecting N200 billion they now gave you N30 billion and that is for EARNED allowances. As for revitalization, Federal Government has been sending money for revitalization. And we and the other non teaching staffs have been benefitting. We were even expecting before joining the strike. And the money that is coming for revitalization is to buy equipments, reagents and consumables. But where we have problem is that the end users were not incorporated in using that money. The money will come to the University which is supposed to be taken care of by the governing council and then buy those things, but because of the situation we find ourselves, we cannot access it. So the issue of the state of the Universities is that the Federal Government may give that money, but it is not used judiciously. 

Q: Are you saying that some people will deep hands into the funds and divert?

A: Sure, and divert it, instead of making proper appropriation for it to go round where the needs exists. 

Q: I see tarred roads on campus, could it not be that management here is benefiting from the upgrade support to fix the school already? 

A: No, if you are talking about those newly tarred roads you are seeing, it’s not only Zulum’s support, I know of Nigeria National Petroleum Corporations NNPC’s, Federal Ministry of Works and other interventions. The needs assessments normally takes care of equipments, roofing, hostels, the structure in classrooms, laboratories, workshops, studios teaching facilities, this is where revitalization is coming into. 

Q: So can we say Federal Government has not paid any of the aggrieved allowances for 2021, 2020, 2019 and 2018?

A: Yes, in fact from 2017 to date.

Q: So even ASUU has not seen 2017?

A: Yes, what has been given was the backlog. The last money that dropped for say from 2013 to 2016, so 2017 to date nothing has been received.

Q: At least for a lab small as this?

A: Not for this side lab, but for the standard of the Nigerian Universities Commission (NUC) or Pharmacy Council of Nigeria (PCN) considering Its students per ratio or students per staff. We are supposed to have 20 students per one staff. If you look at what is happening here in this lab, where I am the only technologist it’s not so. So if there was provision, and had it been five of us are here which means 5 multiplied  by 20 its supposed to be 100. And in a situation whereby I am the only person, which means the remaining  80 are excess workload, so that is why government is supposed to pay me my allowances. If you are talking about space. Here they calculate 20 students per one staff, if in a course, one course four lecturers are taken care of that course which means we are going to share it when the money comes. So they will calculate 20 times 4 which is 80, the remaining 20 is excess workload. Then if you are talking about revitalization where it affects the students especially in the lab here, the capacity of this building is supposed to be 48. They admit 130 students, so if they admitted 130 something, its triple. So we normally use to divide the students into groups. Group A, B, C.  Group A will come today 3 hours next group B will come next C will come that’s how we share. That’s why they complain about academic staff and even we the technologist that is if the space is available the equipments and material should be available. If you look at the size of this one and look at the equipments now, are they okay? How many Microscopes is available in this lab? Where we have 120 students and the capacity of the lab is 48, we are supposed to have 48 to 50 microscopes. That is one for the lecturer, one for the technologist, and each student should have one. Which means the students will not go and join another group for them to carry out their practicals. Two, if you look at lightening system, look at Air conditioners (AC’s) here, if you allow 40 students to be here you know how much you are going to contain. The ACs are not working. This lab is not even supposed to contain fan, but look at it in the absence of ACs you now put fan and you see its another problem which means its circulating. This means the place is not safe for learning.

Q: What is delaying the second pharmacy structure that will give you more lab spaces? 

A: Actually, I should not be in the best position to tell you, but out of experience I am a union leader because I normally used to ask questions. Its the system that is destroying itself, now if a building is given as a contract whereby some percentage will be given to you. You will be paid based on the stage you reach, but for the past three years now they gave that building and the time for that building is supposed to be 14 month, today its almost 72 months that they gave it out and it has not been built. That is why I said I am not in the best position to tell you what is going on. But I learnt that TET fund has given a direct contract from Abuja for the completion of the second pharmacy structure. The contractor would just come in and start working, and sadly that means we the end users that are supposed to correct them can’t talk to them. What you request is not what would be provided in most cases. That is the disadvantage.

Q: Big minus indeed for you the users of the facilities which are overloaded here. 

A: Yes and a lot of duplication from the contractors they make money out of duplication of items instead of them bringing this pen, somebody went and brought another variety of pen or even pencil. He said, I said that is the one that I want, why are you bringing pencil? Please the function of the pens and pencils are different just go and get what we asked for. So in the process of changing, they will say its like you are not cooperating with us, no problem we will go back and then they will dump and forget you. That is exactly what is happening with even the supply of equipments here. It’s sad. 

Q: What are those challenges that have been choking you here? 

A: Most of the challenges is electricity light especially for the labs. Electricity is one, two, water system. Three spacing, you know a situation whereby this lab is built for 48 students, because of the competition and the situation we find ourselves, they admitted 150 students. Then the big challenge is lack of consistent training of our technologists. Regular training, because the equipments that you got training in 1980, 1990, is not the one we are using now. Insurance is the fourth. lack of insurance is a major problem. I know NAAT has its, insurance policy but its not implemented. If you are working in the lab, there are some reagents here if you are working that can kill you and even destroy your reproductive cells. You see somebody with a fine wife, but he cannot give birth, the reagents has sterilized the reproductive cells. If he has an insurance, it will take care of that. But you know we have a policy, but the policy is not being implemented. Why the union was agitating for that renegotiation, this renegotiation the last time they increased the money was that 2009 agreement. From now if you look at the rate of, lets talk of dollars now or let’s talk of even the naira say as of 2009, a bag of rice was N2000. Today a bag of rice is N35,000. At 2009 you don’t pay any money for your student needs even government school, but today you must pay. Things have changed completely, so people are now moving helter skelter looking for other places where they can get extra jobs so that they can survive. And if you are going to talk specifically of unimaid, we have a peculiar problem, thank God you have that experience. You were here when the crisis was at its peak, everybody ran and left  Maiduguri, because life doesn’t have duplicate, so somebody will run and find another place. So these are the reasons why our welfare is supposed to be taken care of. 

Q: But has insurance been part of the findings of the Babalakin commission? 

A: Yes. As I have said we have it in our own 2009 agreement, but even some parts of the 2009 agreement was silent. People were just agitating about where the money will come from. That is why, if you go out now asking Technologists, they would tell you that  our hazard, responsibility, student implementation ratio which is excess workload, our SIWES and all these allowances are known. But people are silent about insurance. We have been talking about insurance, but you know I don’t know how to classify it, is it because of the individual unions, the leadership interest. But I know that in our 2009 agreement it is there. People are silent all over about the matter. And they are talking about this IPPIS let us be sincere to ourselves, I am a union leader, these are what I am interested in, I don’t bother about how you pay but what I am going to get there is where I am interested in.

Q: How are you surviving with the IPPIS? 

A: The reality is, that sometimes ago when we were about joining this IPPIS as leaders, we were briefed that this thing is going to be captured that one is going to capture, but it was not realistic when we joined IPPIS.  I thought that this is something that the union leaders should fight and why is it that there are abnormalities. This was not what we agreed for, correct it or else. But if somebody is talking about IPPIS now I am surprise because why is it that some lecturers are going for sabbatical, if they are not paying you why should you go? I know of my people that went for  sabbatical, if they are not paid there, why should they go.

Q: NAAT too  go for sabbatical?

A: Yes, we go sabbatical, I know about 15 of my members went for sabbatical why are they going if they are not getting anything? why should you go and spend a complete year somewhere else if you are not getting money? There are people that have never gone for sabbatical. Is an agreement that you arrange with somebody. Like one visiting they don’t pay you full salary but they would say we are paying so for so either they would pay from internally generated revenue IGR or whatsoever the management is going to consider. We have enough money to pay these people because we don’t have them as contract staff. I know some of the contract staff that got their money from IPPIS.

Q: I don’t think they paid anything to contract staff, they are owing during the strike. 

A: Good, but other staffs yes during the strike let me tell you the worst strike that ever happen in this country is this strike. Even overhead, Federal Government refused to send it, how do they expect these people to run the schools? Are Vice Chancellors on strike, Registrar’s, Bursar’s essential services?

Q: That was a mistake, the government shouldn’t have done that? You are right

A: Its like they wanted to destroy, or eliminate the whole thing. Yes if not for the whole 7 month or 8 month you have not sent over head cost and you still expect to come and see that structure, in the system. So this strike is something very strange it was not a strike but another battle. Because its like people came with some of their interests to come and revenge or to come and destabilize things, if not, let me be specific like this primary school and secondary school they were called that if you are on strike and that you don’t want you will not come, how are you going to do with your children, they came and they were not given single kobo. Security men there were on duty, fire service they were on duty, nothing was given to them. And if you come back to the lab now look at the animals. If you go on strike for one month without feeding those animals, what will happen are you coming to meet the animals alive? 

Q: Now looking at salary raise of 35 percent that was given to Profs, did they give NAAT members of equivalent status this?

A: We got 23.5 percent. For NAAT, NASU and SSANU 23.5 percent. We suspended the strike for 3 month hoping that things will be okay. But if things are not okay we may go back for another NAAT meeting and review the stand of the association. As NAAT we always believe in dialogue and law, so that because of our number and the challenges that I said. If you go and meet a Professor of History, or of religious knowledge where he doesn’t know, he doesn’t bother about laboratory or talking about technology taking care of it. For you to graduate you must pass through technologists. Well ASUU is collecting students implementation ratio, we collect our student supplementation ratio. I am very proud to tell you that in this school we have enjoyed student supplementation ratio for almost 3 years collecting our salaries. Because that was our right and they know and they look at it that yes it is good to pay us. We stay and conduct practicals up to 5 o’clock or 6 pm. Sometimes we have to leave our houses 7 o’clock for practical in the mornings.

Q: The negotiation of the 2009 agreement continues as far as NAAT is concerned. Do you believe that it is solvable?

A:Yes, they have not accepted it, because the renegotiation is not talking about holding salaries but was talking about allowances and then services, scheme of services. The other ones we are talking about are health insurances, some other allowance that people are benefiting in other climes but we are not benefiting. Then I said renegotiation of, arrears of earned allowances. 

In spite of the insurgency in our backyard coupled with dangerous chemicals we work with, my people are uninsured  – Chairman NAAT unimaid chapter

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Nobody can escape from the wrath of the VAPP law if found guilty – Jumai Mshelia

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Nobody can escape from the wrath of the VAPP law if found guilty – Jumai Mshelia

Barrister Jumai Mshelia is the head of the Borno State office of the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC). This amiable rights activists hardly have time for her personal life because everyday is about hard work in her office. In spite of the lingering insurgency in the state which has taken so much from her in the area of arbitration over resultant marital and rape issues, she never gets tired of going back to her old office on Bama road in Maiduguri to respond to myriads of issues that gets to her table. She had a review interview with Bodunrin Kayode on her activities in 2022 which culminated in the 16 days of activities to sharpen the wits of stake holders on how far the state has gone in terms of progress on some vexed issues like rape and what to expect in 2023.

Q: What is it about the 2022 activities of the national human rights commission that is different from 2021?

A: What makes 2022 unique is that it was the 75th commemoration of the international human right day, that coincides with the universal declaration of human rights with the theme dignity, freedom and justice for all. This is what makes it unique. And it’s unique in the sense that, dignity for human beings makes people have that freedom and justice and fairness to anybody as far as we are human beings. So for us as a commission, we commemorated it in the 36 states of the federation including the Federal Capital Territory (FCT). So for us honestly it’s a great celebration, because we have all the relevant stakeholders in our midst, we had the Commissioner of Police, the representative of the theatre Commander in the person of Brigadier General Idris, the Garrison Commander. We had the Controller of immigration,the NSCDC Commander, we had the representative of Commissioner of women affairs, her own is because of issues that they are having there at the commission of women affairs. So you can see the high caliber of people that are here. So if you talk of the issues of human violation, the people, the distinguished participants were happy so that at least, they can voice out their concerns that they have with security men listening. You can see during the plenary session a lot of issues were asked, and I commend their efforts for being all on top of all the questions that they were asked and their work in what they are doing in the state. We had the representative of the civil society, we had the women too on it. So they spoke a lot about issues around human rights violation and the role that all the security agency that are ensuring and respecting the rights of women in the state

Q: Lets zero down on the impact of your activism in the state over the years, can we say things are getting better or just averagely?

A: Its improving, this is because people are now cautious of their rights they know how and where to report each of the human right violation, and having known of their rights, they try to respect other peoples right. And whenever such issues comes on they don’t take laws into their hands, they report immediately. You can see from the two scenario, the drama presentation on the stage. You have seen how people were conscious of how and where to report issues of human rights violation, issues of early marriage was highlighted and you have seen how the girl child was able to know how where to report issue of anything that affects her rights.

Looking at the state and the extreme secrecy and shame phenomenon when it comes to some crimes like lingering rape, can you say Borno within a scale of 1 to 10 has started opening up, lets say 6/10 or we are still around 2/10.

No we are around 7/10, because people can open up and report issues. People are ready to come out and say their minds despite the threat, the intervention that people are coming to seat and tell them they should not report.

Q: But 7/10, when we have a school proprietor who doesn’t want a suspected rape case to be prosecuted and they are fighting to kill that case if possible?

A: You can see the level the father has taken his steps in ensuring that, no matter what, he wants justice for his daughter unlike then that it should have been shredded out or kept in secret, protecting it such that if I allowed it to go viral my daughter will not get somebody to marry. That is what makes it different.

Q: A five year old? Who will remember the case of this small girl 10, 15 years from now. Who is going to remember except her?

A:Some people then, before the consciousness of awareness people felt that such issues should not be talked in the middle of people, it should not be discussed at all. But now they know that there are people, we are here to support them no matter what and justice will be done to them. And the case is with the ministry of justice for legal advice.

Q: Will the ministry be under pressure to drop such a sensitive case?

A: No, no, no, for legal advice.

Q: What if the school tries to apologize and settle out of court with a huge plea bargain amount, will it be permissible?

A: No, with the recent Violence Against Persons Prohibition (VAPP) law, it’s not permitted. The vapp law said, “he who admits, there is punishment for death”.
You admitted now, so there is no issue of settlement. There is no issue of settlement under VAPP law. If you settle that will be abetment, you are abetting for the continuation of appropriation of certain crime. Even if the money speaks and I like what the father said, because the father was saying that no matter who is the person, he is not going to proceed and say he has forgiving them. He wants justice for his daughter.

Q:Finally, what would you say are the highest points of the 16 days of 2022 activity?

A: The commemoration of the international human right of last year was so special in the sense that we have gotten the normal support from stake holders.
We have equally seen the commitment of the relevant stakeholders’ in the cause of fighting human rights violation. And that shows that, whosoever is in conflict with the law will not go free. He will be punished. We enjoin every person to ensure the fight for human rights, because only human rights commission is everybody needs.

Nobody can escape from the wrath of the VAPP law if found guilty – Jumai Mshelia

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